Posts by defender of truth

110

Just had a former elder friend tell me, “This Overlapping generation is crap.

by John Aquila in

last night i ran into a former elder friend, he is in his late 70s.

he asked how i was doing and i asked how he was doing.

then out of the blue he tells me; .

defender of truth

kaik 8 hours ago
My mom does not believe in the overlapping generation

Billy ex Blaze 7 hours ago
My parents don't believe it either.

Have either of you pointed out that that means the Faithful Slave are false prophets? If they are not accepting this redefined meaning of the word 'generation', any JW is admitting the following was an indisputable false prophecy in Gods name >>

(As a side point, this page has some good scans of old generation teachings):

www.answerjw.com/1914/index.html#p7

the comet
"I can't say this enough..doctrine doesn't matter to people under 30!! They don't know and don't care."
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That being the case, part of me feels that they deserve to be in a cult.
But the children they will have, or already have got, do not deserve to be in a cult. They all need to be educated about cults and critical thinking..
This is what really bothers me..

75

Lurker trying to gain clarity

by questioningmyfaith in

jw
friends

hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.

i am not negative towards the wt at all.

so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.

defender of truth

One more point:

So this is my question that I wonder how other people got over certain indoctrinations of JW's.

Many never do. Most never even realise that they were indoctrinated and controlled, from childhood onwards in some cases..

That is why some of us spread what you may call "anti-watchtower" stuff. (Information regarding the effects of Watchtower policies, not Rick Fearon type nonsense..)

Prevention is better than a cure.

75

Lurker trying to gain clarity

by questioningmyfaith in

jw
friends

hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.

i am not negative towards the wt at all.

so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.

defender of truth

Great post, Simon.

@questioningmyfaith, I just wanted to say that I hope you did not find my last post too off-putting..
I was not actually accusing you of being a sociopathic person, I was pointing out an apparent contradiction in what you are saying. I hope this makes it a little clearer..
For example:

I am not negative towards the WT at all. So honestly I am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the WT because I still love the organization and the people in it.
...The GB has had bad policies in place.
And just one other thing on blood transfusions because I know that is a big one.... I am NOT saying that lives could not be saved with a transfusion.
But if I had the firm faith in god I once had then I would die before accepting blood.
People are responsible for their personal decisions. If someone has full faith in god and they make the decision to turn down a blood transfusion for their god I just don't see the crime there.
------------
Broken families? Do we live in the world of leave it to beaver? Family break up in all walks of life. Some family members don't speak because of differing political views...
I have come to terms that I'll lose my witness friends and families. But again, I just don't care. I know why they are going to make the decisions that they make.

You and your family have been heavily indoctrinated and repeatedly told:

*Loyalty to God= shun those who elders, following Watchtower guidelines, declare to be DF'd.

*Loyalty to God= You must not have a blood transfusion, based on verses that do not relate to modern medical procedures.

Had you not gained some degree of mental freedom from the Watchtowers propaganda and indoctrination techniques, you would right now be willing to shun a family member who the elders decide is unrepentant of the vile sin of changing a personal belief or even being seen smoking a cigarette for example, and you would be willing to throw your life away based on a scripture that, taken in context, does not even relate to blood transfusions.

You likely would not do these things now. Yet as an indoctrinated JW, you would have.

I believe the advice on what type of person you are supposed to be and how to treat others has made me a better person... (Likable is completely subjective, so I'll leave that).

Do you still think that the Watchtower teachings have been responsible for making you a better person, and taught you how to treat others..?

You should be pleased when your family and friends shun you, then.

You should be proud that they are demonstrating the best way to treat those who 'sin', or those we disagree with on matters of faith.

They have been taught well, haven't they?...

75

Lurker trying to gain clarity

by questioningmyfaith in

jw
friends

hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.

i am not negative towards the wt at all.

so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.

defender of truth

I didn't want this thread to turn this way. I truly could care less about the "cult" behaviors of the wt.

You have asked for people's views on a public forum, it doesn't really matter how you wanted it to go.

This isn't a Watchtower study where people answer set questions in the way that you want them to.
Many people here care about the effect of mind control and destructive propaganda.

I believe the advice on what type of person you are supposed to be and how to treat others has made me a better person and more likable.

If you say so. You come across as arrogant, antisocial and borderline sociopathic. The black+white teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses can have that effect. We just don't always see it at the time. Case in point:

I have come to terms that I'll lose my witness friends and families. But again, I just don't care. I know why they are going to make the decisions that they make.

Unless you have disposable friends and family, I am not convinced that you know what you are saying. Not until it actually happens.

The love and understanding that the elders are showing now, will be utterly irrelevant when they cast you out as a social pariah, just for changing your personal belief to atheist/agnostic.

As you said earlier, the Nazi's were responsible for their actions, for the way they treated people.. Not the innocent JW's. They were not responsible for the Nazi's callous treatment, based on nothing but their personal beliefs.. although had those soldiers not been brainwashed by Hitler's propaganda and served under the regime of a controlling despot, many of those German men would likely never have caused such harm to others and lived normal lives.

The same is true for those elders, who will make the decision to take people's family and friends away from them. They are responsible for that.

But they would likely never have told anyone to completely shun and avoid a family member or friend, just because the person had a different belief, without that controlling structure and Watchtower propaganda to convince them of the 'rightness' of this mental cruelty. Most elders are likely decent family men, who would never do such a thing, if this organisation had not trained them to do so.

You are on the verge of freedom, you have already got further down that path than many who are too afraid to research because of the implied threat of destruction at Armageddon, or the indoctrinated fear of a God that will kill them and their children if they do not obey him.. Yet you still wonder if there could be a Paradise for JW's, that maybe they could still be right somehow..
Once someone is indoctrinated by a system or organisation, they are caught in a trap. Many never escape.. Some try to help others escape the trap.
If you could care less about people being controlled, then fine.. But I find that attitude Unchristian, to say the least.

If you have even the slightest interest in the suffering of others, read some of these real life stories:

www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/my-darling-son.php.

www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/sundawn.php

www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/merry.php

www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/coffeeblack.php

75

Lurker trying to gain clarity

by questioningmyfaith in

jw
friends

hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.

i am not negative towards the wt at all.

so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.

defender of truth

So none of those things I mentioned prove gods existence.

None of them have any relevance whatsoever to whether a God exists or not.

That was basically an unedited rant about the problems you see in the world.

If you are still a JW, what are you going to personally do to try to benefit the human race? Stand in front of a trolley/cart and pass magazines out? It's the easiest thing in the world to sit there reading sensationalist tripe in newspapers and praying to a god to save us from doom..

If I were you, I would try to decide first what I wanted to DO with my life, rather than waste peoples time on a message board expecting them to suggest a different way that I should view the world and mankind.

Get out there, LIVE your life fully rather than just waiting for an answer from a God or men, and then decide what you want to believe, once you have experience.

As long as you surround yourself with Witnesses and Watchtower literature, your thought processes will be restricted and there is little point in discussing views on mankind, God, or the suffering that this organisation has allowed.

You won't read Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz to see what you personally feel about it, because your mind has been programmed not to read any books by former members of the organisation. You will shut out any views that you don't want to hear.

If you really want clarity regarding your beliefs, 'widen out' by socialising with different kinds of people with different beliefs, even those who do not believe in a God. Have a good argument/debate.

Be critical of beliefs, and compare them to all the available evidence.

Once you have formed your OWN opinions, and starting from scratch is usually needed to do this, clarity will follow. But it will take time.

You know by now that the Watchtower doesn't have the answers (otherwise you wouldn't be here).. Neither does anyone on this board have answers for you.

They are points that I look at and ask myself 2 questions.. I would be curious what some of your thoughts are.

Why do you really want to know what our thoughts are? You sound like you are fighting an internal battle, but nobody here can give you an immediate answer.

Start off by asking yourself:

Why do I believe there is a God?

Biology and 'design'?.. So study evolution and science. Some people here can recommend books to start you off.

The Bible?.. So study history. Read the works of scholars and critics alike. We can even point you in the direction of information regarding the Bible and it's history and context, if you like.

But trying to answer your two narrow questions is, in my view, a waste of time. I am an atheist, because I see no reason to hold a theistic belief.. How does that help you?.. It doesn't.

Ask yourself questions. Study for yourself, think for yourself.

Don't rely on anyone else.

110

Just had a former elder friend tell me, “This Overlapping generation is crap.

by John Aquila in

last night i ran into a former elder friend, he is in his late 70s.

he asked how i was doing and i asked how he was doing.

then out of the blue he tells me; .

defender of truth

Carla:
"Is there a 'generation history' for dummies posted anywhere? my timeline is all messed up now and can't remember all the changes going way back to present."

How 'bout this page?

www.bible.ca/jw-1914-generation.htm

14

JWs on the defensive on FS in the UK right from the introduction.

by Xanthippe in

my daughter's friend from university had jws call on her this morning.

they started off by asking her if she knew any witnesses.

then they said you may have heard things about us but it's not the way it sounds!.

defender of truth

Vidiot an hour ago
At this rate, they'll be going door-to-door just to try and refute all the bad PR before too long

LOL. If you look at the September public Watchtower, that is basically what they are doing..

"We're not a weird American cult, we are a worlwide organisation of happy people.. Look at all the smiley faces in the pictures.. We don't ask anybody for money, we take donations.."

Why do they think anybody cares what they believe or how many JW"s there are?

This month's offering the mags, as set out in the KM, is a shameless PR exercise. I hope it makes a few people curious..

My friend told me that one lady said to him "I never thought you were a cult", and yet still didn't care what was in the mags. Probably the first time she'd heard the idea. Not many bother to Google JW's in their spare time, after all..

110

Just had a former elder friend tell me, “This Overlapping generation is crap.

by John Aquila in

last night i ran into a former elder friend, he is in his late 70s.

he asked how i was doing and i asked how he was doing.

then out of the blue he tells me; .

defender of truth

millie210
why doesnt the GB just let this die a natural death..?

See my above post.

They cannot let go of 1914 and admit it was wrong, they would be shown up as false prophets to any who have not yet seen it.

110

Just had a former elder friend tell me, “This Overlapping generation is crap.

by John Aquila in

last night i ran into a former elder friend, he is in his late 70s.

he asked how i was doing and i asked how he was doing.

then out of the blue he tells me; .

defender of truth

This page details the changes in the 1914 teaching. It shows all the years they printed the 1914 generation "Creator's promise" prophecy.

www.bible.ca/jw-1914-generation.htm

110

Just had a former elder friend tell me, “This Overlapping generation is crap.

by John Aquila in

last night i ran into a former elder friend, he is in his late 70s.

he asked how i was doing and i asked how he was doing.

then out of the blue he tells me; .

defender of truth

[Please bear with this post, it has a good ending ;) Thanks for your patience.]
“IF EVER THAT EVIL SLAVE . . .”
Jesus has placed the weightiest of responsibilities on the faithful and discreet slave—namely, overseeing the domestics and giving out spiritual food at the proper time. Jesus knew that those with greater responsibility have greater accountability. (Luke 12:48) Hence, he concluded his illustration about the faithful and discreet slave with a powerful warning.
Jesus warned about an evil slave who concludes in his heart that the master is delaying and who starts to beat his fellow slaves.
When the master arrives, said Jesus, he will punish that evil slave “with the greatest severity.”
Jesus did not say that he would appoint an evil slave. His words here are actually a warning directed to the faithful and discreet slave.
Notice that Jesus introduces the warning with the words “if ever.”
...The anointed brothers who together serve as the faithful slave recognize that they are accountable to the Master for the way they care for his domestics.
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10 Who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave?
In keeping with Jesus’ pattern of feeding many through the hands of a few, that slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food during Christ’s presence.
Throughout the last days, the anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave have served together at headquarters. In recent decades, that slave has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Note, however, that the word “slave” in Jesus’ illustration is singular, indicating that this is a composite slave.
The decisions of the Governing Body are thus made collectively.
www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/who-is-faithful-discreet-slave/

@brandnew..

"Pops is actually saying , 'maybe another apostate has slipped into the gb'. "

Maybe remind your Dad of this article. If Jesus is soon to judge the Governing Body [faithful slave], and Jesus said that they would be 'punished with the greatest severity' if they did not remain faithful...

What may Jehovah feel if JW's like him have been following and obeying a group of 'apostates', an evil slave?

According to their own teaching in this Watchtower, Jesus said it was possible that they could become an evil slave. Why else would he provide such a warning, if it could not possibly happen?

Besides, all decisions on doctrine and teaching are made by the whole group. The whole Governing Body..

So he cannot blame this overlapping teaching, or any other issues he may have, on just one of them. They are all responsible.

They are all equally complicit in this 'overlapping generation' nonsense being taught as indisputable Bible truth to millions of people.

Note, however, that the word “slave” in Jesus’ illustration is singular, indicating that this is a composite slave.
The decisions of the Governing Body are thus made collectively.

Furthermore, the overlapping generations teaching is the only remaining way to salvage their false prophecy:

Why AWAKE! Is Published ...Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.

Therefore any Jehovahs Witness who doesn't believe this utterly ridiculous overlapping generation teaching.. has in fact, whether they realise it yet or not, admitted that the 'faithful slave' published a false prophecy.

(The above quote was printed in the Awake! from 1988- November 1995)

Deuteronomy 18:20-22

20 If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak..that prophet must die.
21 However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?”
22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’
www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/deuteronomy/18/